The Art and Strategy of High Integrity Sales with Justin Janowski

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{ Helvetica;-----BEGIN THE ART AND STRATEGY OF HIGH INTEGRITY SALES WITH JUSTIN JANOWSKI-----

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Speaker 1>

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0>03 Welcome to Narrowing the Divide. I'm Dan Warheide, your host, and my goal is to connect with and inspire others. If you want to improve yourself, your lifestyle, your business and your income, then you've come to the right place. If you enjoy this podcast, the best way you can help me is by sharing this podcast with someone in your life. You can also feel free to send me questions, topics or ideas you have, or sign up to receive updates by visiting our page at podcastdanwus. Welcome back to another episode of Narrowing the Divide. Ah, today's show is going to be I hope you think it's going to be great. I hope you find it great. Before we jump into any of that, do me a favor click the subscribe button or simply share this podcast with your world, someone you think would find it helpful. Today, we're going to be breaking down some conversations around selling and building a business.

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Speaker 1>

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1>05 As a coach, I've decided to reach out to a friend of mine who I have known for a few years. I met him in another high-end coaching program, slash mastermind, which I took part in with a bunch of great copywriters and a bunch of other we'll call them online professionals of different capacities. What a great experience that was. Now you may or may not know that I took about two years away from the business of coaching and this year that space has allowed me to decide or narrow down or gain clarity on the things that I really wanted to focus on, and so this year my focus as you may or may not have heard already is to shift into full-time coaching over the next six to 12 months. So that's kind of where I'm refocusing all of my time, attention and efforts, where I'm refocusing all of my time, attention and efforts and in that process, you know, reconnecting or re-engaging at the very least, with a handful of people whom I've just had tremendous experiences with in that online entrepreneurial world over the last few years. Now I say all that to say that you know, I have been coaching in some capacity and consulting since I left the military back in 2018, actually before that, because I had been certified as a StoryBrand guide prior to leaving the military in 2017. So there's just been a wealth of knowledge, a wealth of tremendous people that I have been in community with over the years and I've had a lot of great opportunities to work with and coach some outstanding professionals podcasters, who are wanting to be coaches or are coaches, marketers, online marketers, digital marketers, and there's just a wealth of others that I have had the opportunity to be in community with and to work with, and one of the things that I've noticed recently as I work to shift my focus this year I've been in connection with quite a few people who have signed up for my coaching sessions and I'd say, out of those, I've had some great conversations, but one that continues to stand out and ties to the purpose of today's episode is there are a lot of coaches I end up speaking with, and many of them are either just getting started in focusing on full-time self-employment as a coach, or they've been coaching a while and have just decided to shift into full-time. Some of them, of course, are brand new to coaching and in all of those, one of the things that has stood out in our conversations and maybe not all of them, that would be an exaggeration, but many of these conversations that I have one of the big things that continues to come up is this fear around selling.

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Speaker 1>

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4>12 So today's guest is my friend, justin Janowski. Justin has helped hundreds of coaches build their dream business from the ground up. He's driven by his faith. He founded Faith to Influence, to help people to learn what it takes to turn coaching into a profitable business venture. Justin has guided Christian and non-Christian coaches alike through the rewarding process of optimizing business models, pricing and sales strategies so they can scale their income alongside of their impact. He has a passion for sharing this process with emerging entrepreneurs to help them simplify and grow their business the right way. Justin currently lives in Milwaukee with his beautiful wife Kara, their playful kiddos, grace and Gavin.

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Speaker 1>

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5>03 Now, before I jump into today's episode with Justin or my conversation with Justin, I just want to touch base really quickly on a few things that we cover. So he covers. We cover in this episode the four steps to launching a coaching business. We talk about a 10-step sales process, his 10-step sales process that he's created and probably one of the first things that I was introduced to with him. He attended excuse me, facilitated part of an event that I was taking part in and this sales process really hit home with me. It stood out as just a tremendous way to build rapport, build a relationship and support people without actually feeling yucky about sales. We talked about pricing your high-ticket offers and how to let go of perfectionism, but probably the number one thing that stands out in this case was overcoming fear of selling. So here's my conversation with my friend, justin Janowski. I hope you enjoy, justin. Thank you so much for joining me today.

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Speaker 2>

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6>15 Thanks for having me on, Dan.

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Speaker 1>

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6>17 Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. I'm excited for this time together. I know that there are some valuable tidbits that you have shared with me through different venues, because we've been connected for quite a while now and I've seen you deliver, in impactful ways, content not just content around sales and coaching, but observing your approach to building relationships through each step of those processes. So how about we start here? Can you just share with me a little bit about who you are and what it is you're working on today?

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Speaker 2>

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6>57 Yeah, thanks for asking. I'm a Christian, I'm a dad, I'm a husband. My wife and I have been married for seven years. As we're recording this, and my, my kiddos are five and a half and almost four Grace and Gavin and I live in Milwaukee, wisconsin. I love Wisconsin. I love Milwaukee. I think it's underrated. We had brief stints in Colorado that's where I met my wife and then San Francisco and just found our ways back to Milwaukee and I love it here. And I'm a big sports fan. I love games, I love to compete and just have fun with things.

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Speaker 2>

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7>33 And I run a business called Faith to Influence.

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Speaker 2>

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7>36 And I started Faith to Influence five years ago and it was originally like a Christian men's group.

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Speaker 2>

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7>48 I was hoping just to do $60,000 in sales and do enough to be able to remain in business, and my first year God had bigger plans and I collected over 250 grand in revenue and eventually transitioned to working with Christian coaches, specifically men and women, because I found that I had a kind of a genius or an experience level around sales and business design and pricing.

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Speaker 2>

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8>05 That were things that were really difficult for a lot of Christian coaches and were really the barriers to success for so many were the things that were natural and easy for me. So that's what I do now is I work with kind of two groups of people. One is the newer Christian coaching coach, helping them launch and build their business with high integrity sales, and the other side of it is I get hired by seven and eight figure coaches to do sales directly for them, like Pete Vargas and Pedro Dale we met at Ray Edwards events Nick Unsworth, dr Darius Daniels, shannon Irvin so many great coaches have hired my team to come in and do sales at their conferences. We call it partnership sales. But my favorite thing is working with the new solopreneur.

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Speaker 1>

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8>46 Yeah, why? Um, out of curiosity, what? What makes that your favorite? What? What's the most intriguing part of that, I guess, is what I'd like to know.

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Speaker 2>

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8>57 Well, I guess I would say the partnership sales could probably earn us more money. So it's not, it's not like the financial piece of it. We could probably do that full time and earn more. I, my company, has been paid as much as $80,000 in a week. I am to do sales for some of these big companies, which is mind-blowing.

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Speaker 1>

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9>12 Yeah, that's incredible.

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Speaker 2>

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9>14 Yeah, 16 people to an event and earned like $80-something thousand dollars. And we've been paid $50,000 a few times and over $20,000 and $30,000 many times, which is much more than the newer Christian coaches pay me in our programs.

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Speaker 2>

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9>29 Right the newer Christian coaches pay me in our programs. I love helping someone who's got a passion for service, a passion for coaching, who feels like God's gifted them with something. I love helping them bring their vision to life. It just feels like they're my people and it's so impactful to help somebody who wants to be a coach but doesn't know how to design it like, come up with their signature offer and say this is it.

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Speaker 2>

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9>53 It's so exciting to watch and witness somebody make their first sale or somebody build their business from, you know, being kind of sporadic to consistent, and having a six figure earnings year for the first time and just seeing others thrive is so meaningful. And yeah, it's cool to help the big coaches sell more, but if they're running a $3 million business and we help them run a $3.5 million business because of the sales that we do for them, that's not. You know it's impactful, but it's not as impactful to that business as it is helping somebody go from zero to 50,000. You know that first sale is usually the hardest one to make, and so it's just really fun and rewarding for me to work with good people who want to do something good and just feel like they've got a block.

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Speaker 1>

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10>38 Well, as a coach myself, and again a testament to some of the work I've engaged with you on I absolutely agree. There is something special about helping people get over that zero to one, or even, you know that, one to the two, and growing through those challenges. That's where I love to spend my time as well. So thank you one for recognizing that as a passion of yours and devoting the time and attention you are to that. I want to unpack what you've just shared with us in a couple ways. The first one is you alluded to it, but what are some of the first steps that you would suggest to someone who is wanting to launch a coaching business?

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Speaker 2>

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11>26 Yeah, first steps. I've done some workshops on this and even recorded my own podcast episode. I call it From Idea to Launch in your coaching business. And to go from idea to launch, the first step to me is designing your mission statement. Your mission statement is who you work with, what problem you help them solve and why it matters. That's the first step. If you know who your ideal target audience is, what problem you're going to help them solve, now you can begin to shape everything else around that.

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Speaker 2>

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11>56 The second step for me is actually designing your signature offer.

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Speaker 2>

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12>01 So if somebody said, you know, you got on a call with an ideal client who had the problem that you can help people solve and they said I want to hire you to be my coach, you need to know exactly what the offer looks like, the duration of the offer, the different components of it, the frequency of the components and the price point.

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Speaker 2>

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12>19 And once you put that offer stack together, that can be your signature offer and it can be one-on-one coaching, it can be a group program, it could be a number of different things involved in that, but we want to have a clear offer with a clear price point and then, after you've gotten that we need to be financially ready to take an order.

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Speaker 2>

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12>38 So if you, if you've got a mission statement, you've got an offer, you need to be ready to take a payment. And to me, the right way to do that is to set up an LLC. It's to set up a business checking account and then to set up something LLC. It's to set up a business checking account and then to set up something like a Stripe account, some kind of credit card payment processor, so that if you say, awesome, I want to hire you to be my coach, after I present my offer, I can say great, how do you spell your name on your credit card? I can collect a payment through a credit card, like most reputable businesses. So those, to me, are the first three steps, and then it becomes about making sales.

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Speaker 2>

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13>13 We're not really running a real business until people are paying us to coach them.

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Speaker 1>

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13>19 Highly accurate.

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Speaker 2>

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13>20 They can't pay us to coach them until we've made a sale, and so there are steps to that. We need to think through our sales strategy. We need to eliminate any mindset issues that are standing in the way of us successfully making sales, and then we line up calls, conversations and invite people to buy.

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Speaker 1>

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13>39 Man, you just set that up perfectly. So thank you, because that's my next question, actually, and I want to address something because you just brought it up, but you know setting up the structure of the business. I want to address something because you just brought it up, but you know setting up the structure of the business. I want to, I want to share this for whomever might need to hear it. Today is I. I've witnessed in I. I also run a candle business. I make candles.

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Speaker 1>

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14>02 Um, it's something that just allows me to separate myself from the world and enjoy something creative, and that's my one of my creative contributions. So, but in that, I've connected with so many groups in both the coaching world and in that space, people wanting to start a business making candles, and one of the most common things I see is failure to properly structure their business. They will go to their state and apply and receive their LLC, but they think that that's where it stops. So I just want to point out, from an education perspective, that you should always check with your county and your city or whatever it may be you're living in, because they also, in most cases, want you to register with them. To be a fully operational business. There are implications for not doing that, and so you know, that's just a point of reference I wanted to add to this conversation.

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Speaker 1>

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15>01 But OK, so sales, right. I you don't know this about me, justin, because it's been a while since we've had this kind of conversation, but I've been doing sales now for the last couple of years, a hundred percent commission role that I picked up in a time of necessity, and I learned so much about myself in that process and the number one thing I learned was just getting out there and taking intentional action and using you know, my favorite approach is more of a relationship-based approach and, you know, needs-based approach around selling. But I'm curious, what would you tell someone? So my point there, by the way, is I struggled. I think most coaches are struggling. If they're struggling to build a business like they want to build, one of the biggest pain points is how to get beyond the fear about selling. What do you have to say on that piece?

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Speaker 2>

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16>01 man. This is such an important topic because most people have old stories and it's either in stories about their identity that hold them back, Like they think that they're not good enough, or maybe they've even had success selling other things in the past. They're like now I feel like I'm selling myself and I don't know if I can do that and how do I put a price on that? Yeah, or they think that they're not a good enough salesperson or they're just not a salesperson at all, Like I just can't do that. There's all kinds of stories that we have about ourselves that hold ourselves back. But then there's the stories that we have specifically about sales and money that I see all the time that people believe that sales is greedy, that sales is pushy, that sales is deceptive, that sales is dishonest, that sales is in some other way bad, manipulation, et cetera. And if we've got stories that say sales is bad, we're going to have a hard time wanting to engage in activity that we believe is bad or that we believe is greedy or that we believe is hurting others or taking something from others. And so we have that old story and it's remaining like a soundtrack in our head. We're going to avoid sales calls at all costs. And so what we need to do is we need to rewrite the old story, and the way that we do that is we first want to gain awareness of the old story, and so if we got that story like sales is pushy or sales is manipulation or greedy or whatever sales is taking something from someone else it's actually helpful to write that down and then likely to draw a line straight through it and just cross it out after we write it down and write big capital letters next to it.

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Speaker 2>

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17>31 Not true, Because it's not. What's true is that people have had that experience with other salespeople. And maybe you the coach listening to this, the entrepreneur listening to this maybe you've had that experience with other salespeople, or maybe you've even been that salesperson before and it doesn't feel good. And so those stories are based in evidence. They're also based in movies and what people tell us in our culture. But whatever sales has been with someone else, it doesn't have to be that way with us, Dan. Sales with us can be completely different.

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Speaker 2>

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18>00 It can be a totally new experience, and so the key is to write the old story, cross it out and acknowledge that it's not true, but then to write underneath a true and more empowering story that probably begins like sales with me is blank, and I believe sales with me is fun. I believe sales with me is honest, I believe sales with me is generous, I believe sales with me is interesting. I believe sales with me is simply making it as easy as possible for the right people to say yes. Sales with me is coaching, it's leadership, with an invitation at the end. It's so good, it's so wholesome, it's such a wonderful thing, and I believe that sales with me can feel good, whether the prospect buys or not, for both of us. And so, like those empowered stories about sales, remove resistance to me getting on sales calls, because I look forward to them. I think they're going to be fun, I think it's going to be a good thing for everybody, and so we all need to do that with sales.

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Speaker 2>

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18>54 You might need to do that with stories about your identity. Write new, empowering. I am statements, I am a great leader, I am a worthy coach, I am a child of God, I am worth my price, or whatever else, maybe old stories have been lingering on about our own identity, and then there's that money piece as well, and so I just want to bring that in also, just to say that you might have an old story about money, that people who earn money are not good, or money is the root of all evil. The Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil. Making an idol, caring about it more than your neighbor, that's when it becomes a problem.

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Speaker 2>

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19>23 But but money itself is a tool. You know my story around money is that the more I earn, the more I can give. My wife and I have always given 10% to 20%. We've been very generous with supporting people in our community who've been in need, and I know the more I earn, the more jobs I can create for my business. We've got 16 members at Faith to Influence. The more I can give to my church, the more I can give to my neighbors and people in my community who need help, and so making sure that we're right with all these stories will remove resistance and make it easy for us to sell in a way that feels fun.

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Speaker 1>

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19>53 Man, that is so great. You covered so much there. We could stop right there and just share this and it would be, in my opinion, a great resource and guide for people who are struggling just to get started. But it's not over yet. Get started, but it's not over yet, because I personally, like I said, I have, I have witnessed and been part of your sales process and I think, if you wouldn't mind sharing a bit about you have a 10 step approach to sales and and I would love, I think it would be beneficial for anyone listening um to at least be introduced to that process. So can you share that with us?

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Speaker 2>

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20>34 Yeah, and if any listeners want to follow along, like you, can pause the recording right now and you can go to goodsalespdfcom. Goodsalespdfcom. You can actually download the 10-step process for free and our Art of Influence, which goes over some of the content we were just talking about on identity and stories and things like that. So there's our mindset content, our sales content, all of our best stuff is free for you at good sales pdfcom. But an introduction to these steps. It's interesting, dan.

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Speaker 2>

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21>02 Sometimes I I've been invited to teach on these steps, like at a retreat or a workshop format, for as long as three hours to teach this process and like great depth, with tons of examples, very interactive, of course. I've taught it in one hour segments, a lot, 30 minute segments and a lot, and I can teach it in three minutes, and so I'll give the three minute version here. Beautiful or three minute give or take, maybe a little longer than that, but enough for people to get a taste of what this is like and then, if they want to pursue more of it, I think that PDF can be helpful and for people who are already holding sales calls, even just finding one piece of this, to say, okay, can I turn the dial here and implement this one thing, it can make a difference.

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Speaker 1>

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21>45 So, good.

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Speaker 2>

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21>46 So for me, the first step of the process is to get into a peak emotional state before the call begins. I do this through a pre-call ritual. There's more on this in the Art of Influence, but I'm just going to take some deep breaths, I'm going to pray, I'm going to speak affirmations, I'm going to focus on trying to feel loving, peaceful and confident before I begin the call. Because when I'm loving, peaceful and confident, I get great results. If we enter a sales call and we're feeling nervous or fearful, a lot of self-doubt emotions are contagious. That's going to affect the other person and it's not going to create a great buying environment. But if we feel confident, we feel peaceful, we know that we don't need any one sale but we're there to serve. We're going to have a great conversation and great results on that call. And so if we just do that like if people don't listen to anything else, they stop here. Get yourself feeling good before you enter a sales conversation. You're going to get better results when you feel good. Yeah, you don't feel good.

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Speaker 2>

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22>38 The second step is to begin the call by getting into rapport. Rapport for me is brief. It's usually just a couple of questions. It's like 60 seconds, 90 seconds before we get into the heart of the sales call. But I'm paying attention to how this person communicates and trying to figure out their volume, their pace, their tone, their energy, their emotion, how they're doing. So I can mirror and match a little bit, make sure that I'm communicating in a way, authentically for me, but inside of my range of my voice, which is pretty large, like all of us, we all have an indoor and an outdoor voice. We learned that in grade school, among other things. But I want to make sure I can communicate in a language that this person can receive, so we can be connected. And then I'm going to move into my pre-frame. To me, the pre-frame is the most important step of the sales conversation. This is where you lay out the structure for the call that's about to happen and you get consent to sell and you make everything just feel safe and transparent and honest. Again, there's a script for this at goodsalespdfcom, so people can like fill in their own pre-frame there. But for me it sounds something like this If it's formal it might be like hey John, thanks so much for taking the time to connect with me today.

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Speaker 2>

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23>42 I want to make the best use of your time and mine, so I just like to lay out a simple structure for this call. That'd be okay. Yes, cool. The reason we're talking is Dan tells me that you're a great coach and a great leader, and I specifically work with Christian coaches to help them optimize their business models, their pricing and their sales strategies so they can scale their income and scale their impact. My outcome on a call like this today is get to know you a bit and discover whether or not it makes sense for us to work together, and the way I'd like to get to that outcome is by asking you some questions about where you're at in your business right now, what your vision for the future is and what some of the challenges are that you're facing. From there, I'll give you some perspective and coaching based on what I hear and, if it seems like a good fit, I'll explain really specifically how I work with my clients, so that you and I can decide either to work together or not work together, and either way is fine. Does that sound good? So that's like my formal pre-frame and that does sound good. It feels safe and I'm a professional, and they feel like they can relax and trust me.

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Speaker 2>

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24>37 Now, informally, I get introduced to people all the time where I don't really know what the context is and if they're expecting the sales call or not. If I'm having like what I call a coffee meeting, I'm just going to say something like this like hey, john, thanks so much for jumping on with me today. I'm not sure exactly why Dan wanted us to connect, but I trust Dan and so if he recommended this, it's probably a good thing. I'd love to just learn about you and your business share, about what I'm doing, and see how we can support each other. Does that sound okay? And I'm still leading the conversation with that kind of pre-frame. I'm going to see what we have a step for. I know I'm going fast, by the way, this is like drinking through a fire hose, but I want to get through all of it in a short time here and people can come back to certain pieces if they want to. I'm going to skip step four, which is mid-call objections, which is simply how to respond if somebody does object in the middle of the call. It doesn't happen often. If we've got a strong pre-frame.

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Speaker 2>

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25>25 Usually we're going to go straight from the pre-frame to discovery, which is questions about the presence in the past. The key here is to understand this person and give space for them to feel heard, seen and understood and appreciated, and we want to understand how they got to where they're at right now. So curiosity is really important. I want to go two, three layers below the surface. I want to ask why and to have a deep and meaningful conversation here, and then we're going to transition from discovery into vision, which is a similar line of questioning, but it's about the future.

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Speaker 2>

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25>54 What do you really want your life to look like? What do you really want your business or your marriage or whatever it is you coach people on to look like? Why is that so important to you? What else do you want? If you had that, then what would you want? Tell me more about that. That sounds really interesting. Why is that so important to you? We really want to help them paint the picture and speak out loud life into this vision of what they want. Some people have never said this out loud. This is a gift to give them a chance to share with clarity what they really want, and there's leverage and desire building. Right now, as they speak life into the thing that they want, they're maybe beginning to believe it's possible even a little bit more, simply by having a platform to share about what they want. And then we're going to transition to step seven, which is finding the gap. So if we know discovery where they're at and we know the vision of where they want to go, the question is what needs to change for them to get there? And so we want to discover that problem, that challenge together and that creates an answer to what's going to close the gap. And typically we want them to give that answer, but as a coach, you may give some perspective to help them find the gap If we know what the problem is that they need to solve. Like I'm talking to a coach and they're like man, I really want to build a six-figure business, but I'm struggling to make sales. Well, great.

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Speaker 2>

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27>09 The question becomes next what's the potential futures that exist if we do or don't solve this problem? And so I want to first ask okay, well, what's going to happen if you don't solve that problem? Or maybe before that, how long have you had that problem? Oh my gosh, since I started my business, how long ago did you start your business? For some people it's like two or three years. They think they've been in business, but they haven't been making sales. That's a big problem. So what's the consequence of two or three more years of not solving this problem? And then what would happen, and how would that feel, and who would that affect besides you? Anything else you want to share here?

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Speaker 2>

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27>45 Okay, now, on the flip side, what would happen if you solve this problem, like if you just became masterful at this one skill set, or you conquered this one fear? What would be possible then? What would life or business be like then? And then what and how would that feel, and who would that affect besides you? Yeah, and how good would it feel to know that you were giving that model to your kids instead of the other one where you stayed at the starting line because you were afraid. This sounds pretty important.

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Speaker 2>

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28>11 So then I'm going to transition to step nine. How committed, then, are you to solving this problem? So, at this point, if they commit to solving their problem, whether they hire me or not, what a gift I've given them to help them identify and share out loud what they want, identify the problem standing in the way and commit to solving that problem. What a gift. Yes, and commit to solving the problem. Only then can I actually help them anyways. And so if they're committed to solving the problem, step 10 is to go into my offer.

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Speaker 2>

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28>36 And of course, we talked about how to respond to objections. For the sake of time, I'll just say let's respond with calm and curiosity. More than anything else, we don't need great objection handlers. We need to ask questions and be curious and investigate and help them find the truth and the best answer for them. I'll mention one more kind of secret step between the commitment and the offer, the six O's of closing, as I call it, which is step nine and three quarters.

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Speaker 2>

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28>59 For the Harry Potter fans, nine and three quarters is a statement of certainty and another ask for consent. And so if they say I'm committed to solving this problem, then if I believe I can help them, I'm going to say that I'm going to say awesome, if you're really committed, dan, I'm super confident I can help you solve this problem. Are you ready to hear how I work with my clients? There's the ask for consent. They say yes, and then I can move into my offer. Really gracefully, the way I work with my clients is and I'm going to share details, I'm going to share the price I'm going to say is this something that you'd like to do? And then, of course, I'll respond to any objections concerns questions and things that come up.

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Speaker 1>

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29>41 So it was more than three minutes I'm sure, but that's that's the shortest, not the shortest, but that's a short version of the 10 stops. I forgot to set a timer, but that's so good. There's so much in there. Already in this, in this conversation, there has been a lot that could be unpacked and we could certainly spend some time digging into them, but I just want to pull out a couple pieces that really stood out, spend some time digging into them, but I just want to pull out a couple pieces that really stood out and, honestly, listening, this is not the first time I've heard it, of course I heard a three hour version, which was a lot more in depth and was really good.

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Speaker 1>

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30>10 It still sticks with me what I recognized in hearing it in the short version today, or just how much is in there that's connected with just my coaching process, not even the sales process, but just the way I've structured coaching right, because you brought up the pre-frame right. I like to structure my calls to put people at ease right up front and hey, you know I set the expectation in tone right there in the front end and tone right there in the front end and people have already said you know how professional and how great of an experience it is just knowing, when they come in, where that line exists and we move into that space agreeably together. So that's powerful.

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Speaker 2>

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30>53 Yeah, I really believe, just real quick. Yeah, sales when done right is coaching. Yeah, you could use this exact same 10 step process on every single coaching call If you wanted. The only thing that has to change is step 10. You're not making a new offer. You're just presenting a plan that they've committed to take action on, but that's you know. It really is, and should feel like a coaching process if done well.

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Speaker 1>

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31>16 Yeah, and and even then. So I, I, I utilize the prosperous coach approach to creating clients, and so at some point it would make sense to include step 10 in my conversation, but not in my first conversation with them as a coach. So, um, I absolutely can use all of that and and in some form I really do, recognizing it as you've gone through the list. So I absolutely can use all of that and in some form I really do, recognizing it as you've gone through the list, and I think it's super powerful. The other big piece that you put in there that I use as well is just being willing and open to being sometimes, I like to say, morbidly curious, because it really is. I have genuine curiosity for what they're presenting or what it is that we're discussing, or who they are as people.

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Speaker 1>

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32>05 All of that comes into play in some form or fashion and I know is super impactful in just the sales that I'm doing. Outside of all of this, of all of this. Right, I sell software and you know understanding someone's needs and being willing to listen and be curious about their business and where their pain points are, if you will. You know, when you're curious enough, they uncover themselves and what's great about what you've presented as your process and what I really love about it, is the connection that creates to them being able to recognize what it looks like and what it's going to take to overcome that, even if they never want to work with us in the future and being okay. Right, you didn't say this specifically, but I think it's important removing that attachment to I have to and maybe you can speak to this, but one of the biggest challenges I see out there, and I work to address on with others as well is the attachment to I have to turn this into an income or a client an income or a client.

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Speaker 2>

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33>23 Yeah, yeah, I think that what's really important to note is that if we have commission breath, as one of my mentors used to call it, or they can tell that we want it too badly or we're caring about our interests more than the person we're with, that's repelling in a sales conversation. It's kind of like in the dating world. It's the same thing, I think. When somebody is like too eager way more than the other side, it becomes less attractive, or that person, that opportunity with that person, seems less attractive. Oftentimes, if they're too eager, they're too excited because we start to wonder well, am I getting an unfair deal here then If they're that excited about being with me, am I? You know what I mean? It's funny dating, and I've been like. I remember what it was like to be single and dating. It was annoying. Like I remember liking somebody, being like annoyed that if I liked somebody and they could feel that I liked them, they'd like me less and that they didn't like right, it's this funny thing. So I'm not trying to say that we should be inauthentic or pretend or anything like that, but there is a reality that when we want something too badly for ourselves, the other person sometimes begins to question whether or not it's good for them and they feel less comfortable making a decision to move forward. And that's true in sales. And so we're going to make more sales when we're at ease and we are abundant and we do not need anything from the other person. And so that's part of where I want to get into a peaceful state, coming into the call and remind myself I don't need any one sale, I don't need any one commission, I'm going to be okay. There are so many opportunities, there are so many relationships, so many people. When one door closes, another will open, and so I know I do not need a sale.

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Speaker 2>

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34>59 And in fact, what I'm focused on in the sales call as a first priority is mastery of my sales process. If I focus on mastery of the process and I get better and better and better, and at the end of every sales call whether they bought or not I take notes and say what did I do well, what can I do better? And I learned from the call that I improved towards mastery, the mastery skill set around sales is far more important over the next years and decades than any single sale coming through. So all I need to do first and foremost, is learn from every sales call I have, and a second priority is referrals. I want to ask for introductions to other people, whether they buy or not. Who else do you know who I should be talking to, who might be a fit for this? And then a third priority is to make a sale. Now, that was what I learned from a sales manager I had a previous company was mastery first, then referrals, then make a sale. Now I wanted all three, but I focused on them in that order of priority and that was really helpful.

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Speaker 2>

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35>52 And, of course, like as a Christian coach and high integrity coach who might be listening to this, we just want to be thoughtful, obviously, about serving as well. We're also not trying to be in the business of volunteer work unless that's your intentional effort. If you're trying to build a real business, then serving is important and also making a sale is important, but we just need to hold it in the right light that we don't need it. We want to be intentional about giving our very best while being very unattached to the end outcome of what's actually going to happen and whether or not they buy, knowing that our responsibility ends at a certain point and the prospect's responsibility begins and they have to make that decision for themselves. We want to help them make the best decision for them, for themselves.

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Speaker 2>

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36>40 We want to help them make the best decision for them, and oftentimes that is going to be moving forward In some cases it's not, and I believe in letting people go and not trying to make every single sale and doing what's right and, you know, trusting that if I love and respect people whether they buy or not, they'll love and respect me whether they buy or not, and that's going to create a good vibe for a future business as well.

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Speaker 1>

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36>57 Yeah, absolutely I. I. I apply that approach in a slightly different way because I'm again selling software in the automotive world actually, and I go in there and look at this is an opportunity to help someone and if I gain nothing from it one, it's OK. Now that is 100 percent commission rule, so it'd be very easy to slip into. I need that next sale. Fortunately, I've built that world to the point that I don't need that next sale and I truly am there to serve someone and if they buy from me, that's gold, and if they don't, I'm okay with it and they're more likely to call me later. If they do need something, because I approach it in that conversation and in my interactions with them, they can see that I'm. I am there simply to see if there's a way that I can help them and if not, I'm okay with that and they're they're at ease right from the beginning. Instead of, this is the typical sales call, as you were referring to earlier.

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Speaker 1>

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37>58 By the way, I was thinking about, as you were saying, the stories we talk about and tell ourselves, right, I was trying to think of a movie that presented a used car salesman in a new light, and I can't think of one that doesn't present that used car salesman as some kind of monster to be to paint the picture, I guess but so that's really fascinating. Yeah, man, I'm being mindful of the time that we have left together and and of the amazing content that you have already shared. You shared the resources for the 10-step approach to sales, so thank you for that. I would love to know. You run a challenge as well, right?

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Speaker 2>

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38>48 Yeah, there's a few different things that we do. You know, the GoodSales PDF is a great way to get free resources from us. We'll send you our podcast via email every week and in our newsletter and things like that. So if you sign up for goodsalespdfcom, you'll get a lot of free resources from us. And then we've got a challenge that we run now it's just $7, which helps people design their offer, price it and learn how to open a sales call with a greater depth than what we went through today, and so for somebody who would like that pre-recorded training, I think it's really valuable. It's a four-day challenge and they can get that at salesisgoodcom, which, of course, is the opposite story of what I think a lot of people believe.

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Speaker 1>

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39>29 I love that.

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Speaker 2>

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39>30 Believe that we can help you change that. So, salesisgoodcom, feel free to sign up for our $7 challenge. It's a really cool opportunity. People love it and their businesses are transformed through it.

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Speaker 1>

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39>41 That's so good. Yeah, I would definitely encourage people to check that out, especially if they have questions around structuring their offer or wanting to grow their business. That's the $100,000 challenge. Is it $100,000? Yeah, help me clarify that $100,000 challenge. Is it 100,000? Yeah, help me clarify that $100,000 challenge.

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Speaker 2>

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40>01 It's currently called the four day 100K Christian coaches challenge. We're actually potentially going to be changing the name of it challenge in such a way that would allow people to have the the tools and like the foundation of a business that can scale to six figures without having to be super complicated. Uh or, or difficult or complex. I think that simple is better and we will help you design a simple high ticket offer that you can sell in a way that would allow you to build a six figure business.

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Speaker 1>

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40>38 I'm going to. I'm going to run into that for just a second because I'm just curious, and here's an opportunity for some free coaching for Dan Shameless right. So what are your top insights that you could share, one or two around creating a high-ticket offer, because I think people hear that differently and I'd love to hear your perspective on what that looks like in short form.

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Speaker 2>

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41>06 Okay, cool. First thought. A high ticket offer in the marketplace is typically between $5,000 and $30,000 annually. So I know that for a lot of coaches who are brand new or somebody who's thinking about becoming a coach, that can create some sticker shock Like, oh my gosh, I could never sell something like that. It's like an initial story of so many new coaches. But that's what you're going to see if you go to conferences, you go to challenges, you engage in the marketplace in the coaching area and you receive offers. Most of them are $5,000, five to 30,000. We've sold offers for some coaches that are 50, 60, even a hundred thousand dollars for a year to work with them. But five to 30 is the typical range.

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Speaker 2>

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41>46 And what I want people to know sometimes new coaches sell things a la carte. They just do one-on-one coaching and they're just like oh my coaching call costs this much and they just let people buy one call here and there and hope that they'll buy more calls and it's kind of disjointed and disorganized and it's very difficult from that place to imagine having a five or 10 or $20,000 offer. So what I want people to know first is the length of time of the offer makes it easier for it to be high ticket. So if you wanted to like work with somebody for one month and have a $10,000 offer, you'd have to charge 10,000. But if you want to work with them for a six month period and have a $10,000 offer, now if you were allowing them to pay monthly, they're only paying. Uh gosh, what is that going to be?

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Speaker 2>

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42>34 Dan doesn't do math 15, 1800, a month or something like that If you worked with them for an entire year and you want to have a $10,000 offer, it's actually less than $500. Excuse me, that's not right. No, it's less than a thousand dollars a month. Okay, Now it's like 750, 850, something like per month.

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Speaker 2>

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42>52 The long and short of it is like having a longer offer, where you work with people for six or 12 months is helpful, and it's actually a win-win for both sides. Not only will you get more consistent income and have to work with fewer clients to achieve your income goals, but your prospects that will become your clients, most of them. The problem that you're going to help them solve is one they've been dealing with for years or decades, and so if they've been dealing with it that long, you can have them. Help them a breakthrough in a month or three months, but a lasting transformation most likely not. The longer they work with you, the more likely they are to remain in the identity of the person who solved that problem and like have a lasting change. And so I really believe in a six and 12 month program in most cases.

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Speaker 2>

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43>36 And then the question becomes like okay, your signature offer? Start asking yourself the question what is the very best way I can work with somebody. Somebody was like money is no object. I want to solve this problem. I want to work with you for a year. I want to be transformed. This is worth a ton to me. What is the very best way you could work with them? And doing some market research which we've done for people and that's what we present in the challenge is like. Here are the different ways people work with people in a coaching offer and here's what they're valued at in the marketplace and what do you want to value them at. And then we're asking the question is that part fun or heavy for me? Don't do it if it's not for you, but if it's fun, add that to your program and you can have a value stack. In a program where there's some group calls, there's one-on-one, there's a live event, you can have a few different things.

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Speaker 2>

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44>18 You don't have to do it the way anyone else does, but you can design your signature offer and it can be several components over a specified period of time and a specified frequency, and ultimately, if you're charging fair market rates for what these things are worth, it is going to be worth thousands of dollars over six months or 12 months with the right offer design, and then you just need to work on the mindset of being able to say that out loud but also recognizing.

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Speaker 2>

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44>41 If you wanted a six-figure business and you have a $10,000 offer, you don't need every person in the world to be able to afford it.

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Speaker 2>

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44>48 You need 10 people in the world to be able to afford it, to be the ideal client who really wants to solve the problem that you solve.

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Speaker 2>

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44>56 And so it becomes a much easier problem to solve. If we only need to make 10 sales or five sales of a 20K offer or even 20 sales of a 5K offer, then if we're trying to sell things for like 150 here, $200 there, $300 here, that just requires so many sales that most people never have a chance of achieving the goal that they have because their offer is too low to achieve the goal without making like dozens, if not hundreds of sales. And for somebody who's new and starting out, making dozens or hundreds of sales when you don't yet have a reputation and a network, very, very difficult. For the multi-million dollar coach, making hundreds of sales easy. For the new coach, almost impossible to make hundreds of sales out of the gate. But can we create an offer that will allow you to make five or 10 or 15 sales and achieve your goal, that becomes a much easier problem to solve. That's what we help people with in the challenge.

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Speaker 1>

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45>47 I agree with you a hundred percent and again, so valuable, for thank you so much for sharing that information. And you know, sharing that information and covering that gap creates so much more space to be able to continue to create and even if it's just being able to serve people in a more powerful capacity, you're creating the space to be able to do that just by leveraging the tidbits you've shared here. So I have one more question. It is the title of the show is narrowing the divide and by design, the idea is sort of the you know, we see and know things inherently that are easy, they're in the forefront of our mind or or it's presented to us consistently. But we also know things that we just can't always see for ourselves. It kind of comes out as like an aha or discovery moment in building your business over the last five years. What has been one of those aha moments for you?

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Speaker 2>

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46>52 I remember when I was a new coach, dan Dan, that I was nervous. I wasn't sure if this was going to work. I quit my job to start this coaching business. My wife and I had just had our first baby and she had left her job to stay home the first year.

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Speaker 2>

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47>05 It was a bad time to quit my job and start this business. But I felt like God was calling me to it and I just I had a belief that I could do it. But then, once I made the decision and moved in it, it was like it was a mix. It was a balance of like I had some belief and excitement and passion for what I was doing, but I also had like almost equal amounts of fear, anxiety, uncertainty, self-doubt, like I was battling those two things. I was tossing and turning at night wondering if I was going to be okay, if I could make sales, if I could do this. And one of the first events that I had in my business two months in was a retreat. I ran a small retreat. We had eight people sign up for this retreat for around $1,000. And at the retreat for three days I was going to pour into these guys and make my offer to my annual mastermind program. I had two levels. I had a $5,000 level, a $10,000 level.

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Speaker 2>

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47>52 This was an opportunity for me, and I remember, the day before the retreat, sitting in the event space it was an Airbnb living room that I had booked sitting in this blue chair, looking at the other chairs and the couch where the guys were going to sit, and I remember having this moment where I closed my eyes and I envisioned them there the next day and it wasn't a good visualization and, in fact, what I imagined was that they were looking back at me with disappointment on their faces.

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Speaker 2>

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48>20 They were not enjoying the content, like it wasn't working, and I knew it. But I was upfront, trying to teach and I could see that it wasn't what they wanted and I felt so weak and I thought maybe I can't do this. I actually cried a little bit in that chair, feeling like, man, maybe I'm in over my head and what I had to do was stop over preparing, stop trying to be perfect, stop assuming I could control everything, uh, and that that would be the thing that would work out, or that I could control all the possible scenarios of what could happen the next day. And instead I just like went home and I just surrendered to God and I just said, you know, I surrender, like if you want me to do this, like work through me, and and I woke up the next day with like just a blanket of comfort and peace and like confidence, and I knew I could do it again Once I let go and realized I wasn't the key component, I was just one of the components of this experience.

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Speaker 2>

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49>14 I just decided to trust or surrender, and if somebody is not faith-based, there's another. You know there's ways to do that. I mean, you can meditate, you can, you can surrender. Anyways, you know, surrender doesn't have to be due to a faith, but for me it was to God, and once I let go a little bit and I allowed myself to be imperfect and just do my best and just trust that that was going to be good enough, it went incredibly well.

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Speaker 2>

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49>35 Six of the eight guys joined my program with some sales I'd made before that event the sales of the event. I had over $100,000 in booked revenue. I was two months into running my business and I could have never imagined that that was possible, and it probably wouldn't have been possible if I kept holding on so tightly. I had to surrender. I had to let go and just do my best and allow myself to be imperfect, and that's what I recommend for people is like have enough courage to imperfectly, take the next step and just trust that it's going to be okay and then take the step after that and step after that.

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Speaker 1>

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50>17 I can't tell you the number of times in the last few weeks. Is what comes to mind that people have shared with me and our coaching sessions? The perfectionism piece and wanting that control and the powerful shift that is made when they realize that they can just do it messy and it's still going to be great.

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Speaker 2>

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50>31 Yeah, in fact it can be authentic, then yes, and authenticity is one of the most powerful things in the marketplace right now. People just want people they can trust. Like, if we're too perfect, our clients aren't going to think that they can learn from us because they're going to make. Oh well, that works for Dan, but I can't do that. I'm not.

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Speaker 1>

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50>46 Dan Right.

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Speaker 2>

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50>48 We need to be relatable and my first coach I had was Hal Elrod and he used to say give up the need to be perfect for the opportunity to be authentic. I think that's what's going to attract our tribe.

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Speaker 1>

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51>01 That's so beautiful. I believe in the power of creating connections and relationships, and I believe that that operates more effectively or even above, if you will being inauthentic. It operates at a much higher level than any physical currency. So thank you so much for joining me today and sharing such valuable information, justin, and I know that, if you're open to it, we'll have to bring you back on at some point in the future to continue with this conversation, because there's still a lot that we could uncover.

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Speaker 2>

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51>39 No doubt it was my pleasure today, Dan, and it would be my honor to do it again. Let's schedule it again six months, 12 months from now.

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Speaker 1>

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51>46 I hope you enjoyed this episode and my conversation with Justin. I'd love to hear from you. Take a moment to visit podcastdanwus and you can leave me a voicemail or shoot me a note, Maybe even leave a review if you enjoyed this conversation. But share something with me that you learned or what you would add. Just one tip or one takeaway from today's episode. And until next time, have a great one.

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51>-----END THE ART AND STRATEGY OF HIGH INTEGRITY SALES WITH JUSTIN JANOWSKI-----